Worms rope physics

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pixartist
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Hi, I LOVE that you remade the worms game, but I'm really annoyed the the (IMO) pointless and confusing rope physics.
I wish there was a "worms style ropes" mode, which would:
- Make ropes slightly longer
- Make ropes always shoot to their full length with one tap of space
- Make ropes aim according to the angle of flight when letting go
- Don't allow aiming with the rope in mid air

similar to worms (armageddon)

Thanks Smile

nemo
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Yeah, not happening.
Although first one you can adjust in game scheme using the rope length option.

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pixartist
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why not happening ?

sheepluva
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pixartist allegedly wrote:

why not happening ?

Because this is Hedgewars, not Worms.
If you're so annoyed about Hedgewars' rope so much, then why don't you just play Worms rather than trying to convince us to copy their rope? :P

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pixartist
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Dude, this is CLEARLY a worms clone, and it's always a bad idea to abolish good ideas in order to seem original. This game has a lot of improvements over worms, like better game modes, and it works perfectly on windows 7. That is why I don't wanna play worms. Still, I see no good reason why one should hold space down to shoot the rope for example.

nemo
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Any game has arbitrary rules. Those rules are considered, typically, something you play with and a test of skill.
In terms of holding space to fire rope, a *skilled* hedgewars player, can rapidly pulse shots out to test the angle, without actually attaching.

So, no, things won't be changed just 'cause that's what you're used to.
The game is trying to do its own thing. Most of the weapons are unique, the bounce physics are unique, the graphics depth, the scripting...
It shares a visual resemblance and a few core weapons, but that's all you're getting.

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claymore
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Here's a good reason.

Koda
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also saying that this game is a good rip off of anything is not exactly a compliment, nor a smart move to make us do anything at all...

However, since the topic was brought up from many sources, we could do this

tell us what you think
bye
Koda

pixartist
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claymore allegedly wrote:

Here's a good reason.

Well, that's not really a good reason

sheepluva
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pixartist allegedly wrote:

it's always a bad idea to abolish good ideas in order to seem original.

I agree - but it's also always a bad idea to abolish good ideas and copy a feature from another game just because few people seek a clone rather than to give the unique utility behavior some tries and learn to appreciate it.

pixartist allegedly wrote:

Still, I see no good reason why one should hold space down to shoot the rope for example.

More control. You can re-decide or correct quicker instead. And what nemo said.

It's not like that was never brought up before and the community usually defended the way the rope in Hedgewars works - because it does have advantages.

Sure, for someone coming from that game you mentioned it may take some time to adjust, but if you like this game you should be able to deal with it ;D

I wish you fun with whatever games you're going to play.

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Wuzzy
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I am actually quite happy with the rope gameplay in Hedgewars and I think the suggestions made by the thread starter are pretty minor IMO. It's more like a matter of “getting used to it”.

However, I think there is one concept of Worms: Armageddon which would also be nice to have in Hedgewars.

By default, by using a rope in Worms: Armageddon, you can only shoot and “reconnect” with the same rope 3 or 4 times. You could indirectly change the number of “repeat shots” by changing the weapon “power” in the scheme. Power 5 means infinite repeat shots per rope.

In Hedgewars, you always have infinite repeat shots per rope. Even with a single rope, you can theorecially get anywhere on the map as long it is not blocked by something.

So my suggestion is to limit the number of repeat shots per rope. As soon as you have used up all your repeat shots, you HAVE to detach and stand on the floor to be able to fire the next rope.

By limiting the number of repeat shots, the rope could become more strategic in the Default scheme while still being a skill-based tool. It no longer could take you almost everywhere.

This number of repeat shots should be configurable, because you would break Shoppa and related game types otherwise.

But I do not think Hedgewars should introduce those weird “weapon powers” like in Worms Armageddon. Those “weapon powers” are pretty chaotic and non-uniform, especially for non-weapons. There is no reason to copy that (at least in the way W:A did it).

My suggestion is related to another suggestion (which got ignored), see here:
http://www.hedgewars.org/node/6042

I also explained the repeat shots there (hopefully better?!).

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nemo
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Repeat shot limit could be implemented in a script if you wanted to try it out.

I keep meaning to make a script where hogs start running out of rope "web juice"
That is, you can reconnect as much as you like, but as you run low, your ropes get shorter and shorter.

Maybe with a slow recharge and rope crates to recharge ☺

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Wuzzy
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I have heard of your idea of that rope which gets shorter and shorter. But I have no idea how to do this in a script. Does the engine support changing the max. rope length within the game?

Edit: The problem with the “it could be done in a Lua script” argument is that you can only load 1 Lua script per game. For example, it is not possible to load the DiagonalMaze and the No Jumping script in the same game.

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nemo
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It is obv possible to load both, or we wouldn't have played gravity highlander together ☺

https://code.google.com/p/hedgewars/source/browse/share/hedgewars/Data/Scripts/Multiplayer/Gravity.lua#110

Mixing more than 2 scripts gets a bit more complicated.
Although for shoppa, one script is enough anyway, unless playing shoppamap.

Individual rope stores the max length as the Gear "Friction" variable.

So. GetGearFriction/SetGearFriction

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