Secret Hedgewars developement, outside the SVN - discussion

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alzen
User offline. Last seen 1 year 36 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2008-02-28
Posts: 93

Present situation:

I would like to discuss the present situation in Hedgewars developement. Situation when main developers don't upload every update into SVN because they are making a big surprise for all of us.

I think that this behaviour not quite fair with other users and developers. I don't care about staying up to date that much, but it's nice, after all. I know many of Hedgewars developers have very big ego at the moment, they are creating probably the best open-source worms clone. Ok, I agree with that. I also wonder, if it isn't against the whole open-source philosophy, because you just don't want to share with other people. You are creating barriers not allowing everyone to get the latest version of Hedgewars source code. What about other developers, minor ones, translators, and users who want to participate in Hedgewars developement? I just hope that you are uploading things that need to be translated into SVN without delay. And about users who wants to, let's say, make a new theme or map. He/She may be working on theme/map, put it on forums and Tiyuri will say something like "sorry, we already have heaven theme", whole work wasted.

I want to ask everyone about a few things.

@Tiyuri, maybe palewolf, and other Hedgewars graphics designers(if there are any)

Guys, do you really think that your work is so special not to allow everyone to see it? You think that, let's say, underwater theme that is about to appear in 0.9.7 is somekind of masterpiece in open-source games graphics? All of you are doing really great job, I agree, it's very nice, but is it so special to have limited access?

@unC0Rr

I had no problems while working with unC0Rr, and I think I was surprised when I heard about all that secret stuff not included in SVN. It's hard for me to believe that it was unC0Rr's idea not to upload every change into SVN.

@Hedgewars users, and minor Hedgewars developers(translators etc.)

Please participate this in discussion, I think it's quite important topic. If they are making such a big secret before 0.9.7 what will happen after 0.9.7 is released? Maybe we will see no updates into SVN repository until 0.9.8 is released? And before 1.0? I'm even afraid to think about it.

About Hedgewars future:

To tell the truth I am afraid about Hedgewars future. First of all because of this secret developement, secondary because of iPhone version that is about to be created. When I talked with Tiyuri on forums the other day, he said that Hedgewars will be free and open for iPhone owners who unlocked their iPhones. Others will need to pay like 1 pound for the game, because they need to pay for putting Hedgewars on iStore(or something like that, I am not familiar with Apple stuff). Ok, let's say you will need to pay like 10 pounds a month for a place on iStore, and each month 100-200 people will buy Hedgewars. It's 90-190 pounds profit, each month. Will you share it among everyone who participated into Hedgewars developement? I mean, map makers, translators, and so on?

Personally I think that if Apple wants cash for a place on iStore, ignore them, go somewhere else. We shouldn't be interested in places that wants cash for promoting Hedgewars, just my opinion.

I would like as many Hedgewars users as possible to discuss this topic, please comment and tell what do you think. Thank you all.

I would like to say sorry to everyone who felt hurt by what I said. It wasn't my intention.

XMPP:alzen@jid.pl / GG: 3747253

Palewolf
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User offline. Last seen 4 years 3 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2008-09-01
Posts: 90

First i must say i'm not a team member, just a fairly new contributor, so be adviced: this is just my opinion.

I think "secret" is not true at all: we discuss openly at irc and you can join anytime you want. I mean, we won't suddenly stop talking about the "oooh so wonderfull" underwater theme if you or any other joins... i would like people joining, in fact, it's quite quiet there. Problem here is communication, not secrecy.
Whilst i agree that most changes changes should be published at svn, keep in mind svn's spirit is not about submitting every single minor change that could break the code. In the same way, when you begin a new theme/graphic/design there is nothing to submit at first, just a pile of crappy graphics.
Now, i don't know what would be better... i try to do things as good as i can, so i'd feel awkward submitting graphics or code i think it's not good enough, BUT it is true that that also interferes with collaboration.

Anyway, most development is announced unless it's fast enough... I, for one, don't announce hats until they're finished, mainly because it's always finished in less than 1-2 hours so there is no point in doing it.

While it's true it's about time to submit some graphics, it just happened to be delayed. Tiyuri wanted to do it a few days ago, as far as i know.

And finally... yes, it makes me feel sad you might think i feel my work is too "special" not to share it with everyone...

alzen
User offline. Last seen 1 year 36 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2008-02-28
Posts: 93

Palewolf allegedly wrote:
Problem here is communication, not secrecy.

Right, I am quite rare guest on IRC. I agree, but still, I think it's not right when on the main page we see screenshots of two new themes and there is not even one of them in SVN.

Palewolf allegedly wrote:
While it's true it's about time to submit some graphics, it just happened to be delayed. Tiyuri wanted to do it a few days ago, as far as i know.

So, I would like to say "sorry" to Tiyuri, to be honest I thought that he was the one who thought about "secret" developement.

Palewolf allegedly wrote:
And finally... yes, it makes me feel sad you might think i feel my work is too "special" not to share it with everyone...

Sorry. As I said, I didn't mean to hurt anyone in this topic.

Still, I am curious what other users think.

XMPP:alzen@jid.pl / GG: 3747253

Uriah
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Joined: 2008-01-25
Posts: 359

Stop whining

daimadoshi85
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Joined: 2008-05-04
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Sincerily I agree with Palewolf. Ok, I can't connect to the irc channel now because I'm busy, so I don't know what you say now, but I think that they talk about all changes they are doing, so it's not that secrecy.
I'm really curious too, to see all the new things in 0.9.7, hats, themes, ecc. ; everytime Tiyuri shows new things in forum I always ask when will be in svn :P but I think that if it's not there yet it's simply because not all is ready.
The idea of the surprise I think that's because in this release there are a LOT of new things,it's all new, frontend , themes, weapons, hats, and they want to keep players waiting to see how beautiful will be the new release. Be patient, we are all waiting for 0.9.7.

Come to the dark side, we have cookies... - V

Hedgewars script for ubuntu is here...but maybe I have to update it first Smile

alzen
User offline. Last seen 1 year 36 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2008-02-28
Posts: 93

I talked with Tiyuri and unC0Rr yesterday on IRC. It wasn't nice conversation.

Today I stop translating Hedgewars into Polish, I'm sure you will find new translator soon, Hedgewars is very popular so it shouldn't be hard to find one. I don't write here why I decided to quit working with you guys, I know why, you know why, and people who saw yesterday's discussion on IRC know why. I won't explain it all here because I don't want to argue, don't want to discuss it again.

I wish you all the best with Hedgewars. Goodbye.

XMPP:alzen@jid.pl / GG: 3747253

Uriah
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User offline. Last seen 7 years 44 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2008-01-25
Posts: 359

I shall collect your tears and make a necklace from them to ward off evil spirits

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