The Hedgewars Team Supports Freedom

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User offline. Last seen 8 years 42 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2009-12-30
Posts: 38

Dear Hedgewars,

First, congratulations on your new release of Hedgewars 0.9.16. It is very fun and I hope people enjoy it. I know I intend to. I would also like to take the time and state that I am very happy that the Android version of Hedgewars has been worked on so well. I look forward to seeing the Android version evolve in the future, as I may someday soon get an Android Phone or Tablet.

I am sorry for my approach in the past. In most conversations I have online with people, my point of view is in the minority and I am required to turn the situation into a debate and take a combative stance. My experience here has proved that this methodology is not always the correct way to begin a conversation. It is not always respectful, nice, nor does it always get the best solutions.

If I am understanding things correctly, there is nothing wrong with how Hedgewars is being released for the Apple Pad and Phone.

ID Software does a similar thing. They release their software as proprietary, later releasing the source code as Free Software when they move onto a new engine. The Hedgewars Team has released the Apple Pad and Phone version of Hedgewars under a Free Software License. While I still view Apple's Terms of Service to be contradictory to Freedom, it doesn't need to directly matter as far as the Hedgewars Team is concerned. As long as Hedgewars is licensed as Free Software, Hedgewars Team has done no wrong.

An analogy I will use here is when ID Software released the Doom Engine as Free Software. Later, they sold Doom for Windows in The Collector's Edition Doom. I'm pretty sure that the engine that comes on the CD is still the proprietary engine and under the proprietary license. While it would have been a plus for them to distribute the source code as Free Software on the disc, it really isn't necessary. The reason is, while the version on that disc is likely proprietary; ID Software does have the source code licensed as Free Software and available to everyone that wants it. So, when everything is considered, ID Software is still supporting Freedom. I now view the Apple Pad and Phone versions of Hedgewars the same way. Sense the Source Code for the Apple Pad and Phone version of Hedgewars is available under a Free Software License, it doesn't really matter what users download from the Apple Store. I would still rather Apple modify their Terms of Service to respect Freedom. However, this only reflects negatively on Apple. The Hedgewars Team does support Freedom.

I love Hedgewars, but had taken a break from it for some time over all of this. I had been hurt by some of the comments people said to me, but looking back over my own posts I was hurtful too and not very nice either. I am back now. I apologize and I want to make friends. My hope is that others will apologize and want to make friends too. I had not been the nicest community member, and I am sorry for my behavior. I am also thankful that no one has banned me. Some forums online ban me often.

Thank you all for Hedgewars.


f13ticket, saz, moo, and various other names.

sheepluva's picture
User offline. Last seen 1 week 1 day ago. Offline
Joined: 2009-07-18
Posts: 535

Hmm, 'k.

You're welcome f13ticket.

Have fun and stay relaxed, heh.

  sheepluva <- me  my code stats -> 
a Hedgewars Developer

   <- where I'm from  what I speak -> 

Koda's picture
User offline. Last seen 12 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 2008-11-10
Posts: 215

welcome back, it's good to read some discussions with different argument and non standard points of view

User offline. Last seen 7 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2012-12-18
Posts: 4

Hello. I wanted to take time to write this. I used to be f13ticket. I tried to get my password back to post under that user name. However, I lost my password to my google e-mail associated with that user name so here I am with this user name.

I have taken a lot of time to review the forum posts that I had been a part of. I am sorry for how I acted.

To understand why I acted the way I did, please also understand that around the time period I made those posts Nexuiz was in upheaval. It eventually forked to Xonotic. I have always been a huge fan of video games and computers. I fell in love, and am still in love, with the values of Free Software. I had long been, and still am, a person who actively boycotts apple for their business practices (for their development of proprietary software and for other bad practices that they do.)

I was rather new to Free Software and rather young. I am still rather young. I thought, at that time, that the best way to get a point across was with combative language. It is often the language of the protester, and Free Software is a social and ethical movement about technology. However, there is a time and a place for combative language. Combative language should be used when other forms of communication have failed. I started right out with that, where I should have talked in a calm and friendly way. In starting out combatively, I started the conversation out on a bad foot to begin with.

I did not understand that the code for the apple version was also being released under a Free Software License. In fact, I was so in debate mode that I later came back and found out that this was explained to me several times before I finally realized what was being explained to me. On one hand, I feel that if I had gotten that explanation sooner I wouldn't made the situation into such a large debate. However, on the other hand, I also realize that I would likely have gotten this explanation sooner if I talked in a friendly way rather than instantly flying into combative language.

Sense the apple version is also released under a Free Software License and the source code is made available, then there is no problem here.

It seems that there has long been debates in the Free Software community about the topic of supporting 'closed platforms.' For instance, it was once debated as to whether there should even be microsoft windows versions of Free Software programs. It was eventually decided that releasing these programs on proprietary operating systems was a positive contribution to the movement as it allowed more people to experience Free Software in general. In so doing, it might encourage them to become more interested in Free Software.

However, there really hasn't been a lot of debate, as far as I can tell, on whether or not Free Software should be released on closed hardware platforms. In the case of apple, the Free Software Foundation took the stance it did because apple's portable products require, in the end, that the freedom be stripped from the Free Software before it is made available to the user (when it it coming from the apple store [which is the only official way that software can come to apple users on these devices.])

In many ways, this is similar to the x windowing system. Sense there is no strong copy-left in its Free Software License, whether or not a user's copy of x is Free Software depends on where the user gets their copy. If they get it from the original release, it is free. If they get it from other vendors that decide to strip off the freedom, then it isn't.

In that line of thought, there are two ways to approach closed hardware platforms like apple. The first, is to release on them at all. The second, is to release the software under a Free Software License as well as to comply with the restrictions of the closed platform. As the software gets to the user on the closed platform, it gets there with all the philosophical and legal conundrums that the Free Software Foundation explained. However, the software is still available directly from the software creators in a purely free form. It is this purely free form, then, that continues to uphold the Free Software Values.

Another way of understanding that is when ID Software continues to release commercial version of Doom. The version of the software engine that gets to the users when they purchase the software is proprietary. However, the software code for the engine is available online in Free Software form. It is this Free Software form that many people have used to make the many enhanced versions of the Doom engine. So, the question of whether or not the Doom engine a user has is Free Software or not depends on how they got the software; because the different ways of getting the software comes to the user under different licenses.

I realize that the Hedgewars Team has taken the best path possible to get the software to new people on a new platform in an ethical way.

On one had, I still feel bad because some of the insults thrown at me made me feel bad. On the other hand, looking back, I said some unkind things myself. I do feel that I tried to make the insults that I said with combative language as on topic and not personal as possible; wherein I feel that some of the insults sent to me where more of a personal nature rather than based around the topic. However, on that line, it was I that started things off on a bad foot with combative language in the first place.

For what it's worth, I wanted to explain my understanding of the situation and apologize for my part in where things went.

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