hh.unit22.org changes

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bender
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I've completly rewritten hh.unit22.org. I'm not sure if some implemented ideas are good (especially DLC) but i wanted to push the changes anyway to start discussion. Old website had close to none unique visitors so it shouldn't cause many problems. I hope to gather not only shoppa players around website. So what do you guys think about it?

Wuzzy
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TL;DR: This is awesome because this results in more independence from nasty one-click hosters and commercial entities in general.
I want to move my themes and maps to this server soon, but some question remain (see full text).



On hh.unit22.org, bender allegedly wrote:
support for all kinds of addons (maps, themes, graves, hats, forts, scripts, voicepacks)

This is awesome! We definitely need more servers like this. This is one step further to finally get rid of these nasty one-click hosters which annoy me as hell. They annoy me so much that I even created the thread Wanted: Places to upload Hedgewars-related stuff a while ago. I posted a list of stuff (addon types) which needs to be covered by Hedgewars players/fans instead of 08/15 commercial entities which are (delete) trigger happy.

From reading my list from that thread, it should be pretty clear that hh.unit22.org does not cover all types of addons. Here is a list of stuff which hh.unit22.org does not cover (this list may be not complete):

  • missions
  • flags
  • saved games
  • demos
  • game shemes
  • weapon schemes
  • teams

Game schemes and weapon schemes are currently covered (sort of) in this thread. The schemes are posted in plain text, you can't post files directly, so the thread is
Demos are covered by this very website itself: http://hedgewars.org/demos
So Missions, flags, saved games and teams are addons that are currently not covered by any Hedgewars-fan operated server. As I consider missions and flags the most important, I have formatted them in bold type.
But I still think this change is awesome, I just wanted to point out a small mistake in the text.

Look into my thread for a longer list. The good thing is that the most important stuff is indeed covered now, one does not need to rely on

Now I must make a confession: Despite all my ranting about that bad practise of using one-click hosters to share the Hedgewars stuff (for the rationale behind this, see my thread), I am currently not that better. Although I have shared quite some themes and maps now (most of them are not my initial work), I used your server (The only Hedgewars-player operated server to share maps and themes!) only once. Most of the maps and themes I actually uploaded on three webhosters. Yep, I took three to have a little redundancy, so if one webhoster goes down or deletes my stuff, there are still two ones left. This is still not a good solution since all three webhosters are operated by commercial entities (but for free as in free beer) and I don't trust them one single second to keep my stuff.
I already tried to move the themes and maps to hh.unit22.org long ago but failed thanks to a nasty bug in the old website. Now hopefully you got rid of that bug, because I will soon try again to finally move all the themes and maps to hh.unit22.org, so I can finally turn hypocrite mode off. Wink Smiley

I also have a lot of questions (mostly naming issues) because I want to be 100% sure to do it right:

  • How does the naming system work?
  • How do I do version numbers? (because if I do it wrong, I will go into name collision issues and probably lose a good name forever; please explain 100% fool-proof)
  • Is it a good idea to post unfinished works (works in progress) on your server? (because these obviously need to be uploaded somewhere to show off)

For the second question I can give you concrete examples:
I published the map+theme "Farm" (http://hedgewars.org/node/4201) I converted from Hedgewars not under the name "Farm", but under the name "Farm". But for convenience, I just call it "Farm". Currently released versions are "Farm0.1", "Farm0.2" and "Farm0.3". I have done this because wanted to reserve the name "Farm" for the "final" version 1.0. This is true for all my Hedgewars conversions. Questions:

  • Would that (name "Farm" for version 1.0?) be a good idea?
  • Or should I release it as "Farm1.0"?
  • Would it be ever safely possible to release the map/theme just as "Farm" or would that name be "taken" forever and future updates impossible without a name change?
  • And what would happen if one of "my" maps/themes made it into Hedgewars?

Please note that I have not tested the new website yet, but I soon will. After that I probably post a review of the site itself rather than just the "political" implications of it. Wink Smiley

sphrix
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I will write in order it come in my head Smile

maybe its me but i don't find the FAq anymore, could be usefull sometime, except if its a lot easier to upload file, wich i didnt tested yet.

there is this script ; shoppahighlander on your site, credits to sphrix ? nope its to solar, i write it in the comments Wink Smiley
maybe an edit to comment ?

but comment on addon is wonderfull ! better than just voting + or -

to wuzzy : missions are script if i'm not too wrong Wink Smiley
but you're right, if we could share scheme and weap set there, would be nice, this time again i'm maybe wrong, but i think i saw on the project list of HW, something to share easier the scheme...
https://code.google.com/p/hedgewars/source/detail?r=1b9f026e9fc6717faa7d0110a0cbceef522649ff

flags, team etc... why not Big Grin

ok, i don't remember what else i wanna say, maybe its nothing :p

so, good work bender !

oh, last thing, script include mission i guess, campaign too ? if i create the Dir folder in the good way ?

oh, last thing this time : you add a contact page, its good idea :p

the beachs hogs surfin hedgewars

bender
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1. About supported addon types.
Technicly missions (trainings and campaigns) are supported already. I just didn't advertise this feature because it needs futher testing. Feel free to upload them anyway. Worst case scenario I fix issues manually. Flags are not supported because i didn't know there is a need for it. But that's easy to impement and i'll do it soon.

About saved games and teams - those are problematic. DLC extracts files directly to users Data directory and those files are in different location (Demos folder and teams.ini). So even if i allow uplaod on site, DLC won't be supported. Unless there is some workaround (devs?). Pro users could do symlinks (at least on good operating systems). But that complicates things. For now it won't be implemented.

Schemes and weapons share the same problem but i'm considering making online "editor" anyway. The idea is to collect list of possibly usufull schemes. Not too many of them because it would be stupid, after all game has built in editor Smile. Generally user would click on checkboxes of schemes he wants and download generated files. It would make easier to share eg. tournament shemes. This feature could be usefull but it's not really important so I have it low on my TODO list.

2. About naming.
That's a mess. Right now i allow two conventions. StartEveryWordWithBigLetter and Separate_Words_With_Underscore. With the recomendation to use the one as most of simmilar addons of the same type do. So maps and themes should use the first one and Missions should use the second. Name is validated in uploader script, so you can't break this convention. I don't plan to fix old names (it was discussed already on irc).

The version affix was introduced for two reasons. The most important was to have a way to detect updates. Noone would check manually hundreds of addons just to see if they need update. This is no longer a problem on my site because i track when users download addons and force update if necessary (by adding addon to queue). The other reason for version in name is to have an easy way to figure out which player in the room is not up to date. This is still a problem and right now can be handled only by regualary visiting my site. Btw. it would be nice to have this supported by game eg. by havin version in config file or analizing name. But for now we must use what we have.

So my recomendation is: use clear name like "Farm" when addon is stabilized (you don't plan to make changes anymore) and add version suffix while it's on active developing. For now updating addon on my site requires admin access, so if you need to update some existing addon just send zipped files on my e-mail and I replace old version. Allowing updates for users is on the top of my TODO, just below writing unit tests Smile

bender
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Quote:
maybe its me but i don't find the FAq anymore, could be usefull sometime, except if its a lot easier to upload file, wich i didnt tested yet.

All the questions form old FAQ do not longer apply. Some notes i wanted to share with users are showed on modal windows (click anything in queue controls). If there will be need for FAQ I definitely add it again.
Quote:
there is this script ; shoppahighlander on your site, credits to sphrix ? nope its to solar, i write it in the comments Wink Smiley
Oh, sorry. Fixed Wink Smiley
Quote:
maybe an edit to comment ?
That's good idea. I'll add it.

Oh and one more thing. It's not the best idea to upload work in progess until i add automated support for addon updates(avaiable for users). But I say it just to avoid flooding on addon list page. If you add lets say two new version a week then it's not a problem at all.

CheezeMonkey
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The site looks good! Smile
But, is there any way to look specifically for non-shoppa-maps?
I think a filter for not-shoppa related maps would be useful since well... everything seems to be shoppa related. :P

Wuzzy
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Just noticed that the preview image for FastFood0.8 is just plain wrong. This is not what this theme looks like.

Also, it seems I am unable to look on the description page of FastFood0.8. If I click on the preview image, the page just reloads. Sad Smiley

However, the download of the .zip file works.

bender
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I've added support for flags.

CheezeMonkey allegedly wrote:

The site looks good! Smile
But, is there any way to look specifically for non-shoppa-maps?
I think a filter for not-shoppa related maps would be useful since well... everything seems to be shoppa related. :P

Not a bad idea. I'll add "Not Shoppa Package" soon. You can filter by package so it will give you what you want.

Quote:
Just noticed that the preview image for FastFood0.8 is just plain wrong. This is not what this theme looks like.

I migrated theme previews manually and made a mistake. Fixed.

Quote:
Also, it seems I am unable to look on the description page of FastFood0.8. If I click on the preview image, the page just reloads.

Oh, ouch. URL pattern for addon details didn't allow some chars. Fixed.

Btw. thanks for comments.

KompleX
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I had an account registered eariler, and needed only type my queue in HW client, but unfortunately I can download all the stuff except for maps Sad Smiley
I don't know what is wrong. Everything looks like it was done but new maps doesn't appear in my Data\Maps directory Shocking
I have even tried reinstalling the whole package but my old maps stayed untouched Annoyed

O.S.: Win XP with SP3

bender
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I had some issues with server lately and your download could be interupted. Try reinstall-all in queue controls.

bender
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Turns out it was my bad. Read the news if you're interested why.

bender
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Just to let everyone know. I'm going to revert to static dlc. It will have one tab with up-to-date packages and the second with addons sorted by last modification. So if you have nothing installed you can start with package and then update one by one with what's the newest. This also mean that all the thing about queue and updates on site will be gone. This change is made due to the confusion current solution makes. It's just not worth it. I will also switch to the new packaging system (.hwp files). I'm not sure when those changes will be ready but I'm working on it.

KompleX
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And I have already got used to that new solution Annoyed and it works for me now but if the majority of players got confused - alright then. The point is to get it working anyway Wink Smiley

bender
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Good news everyone. I made hh.unit22.org website and related DLC section stupid simple again. Go spread the news and play shoppa Smile

mikade
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Could you make your search accept partial matches? It's annoying when you ask someone what map they are playing and they tell you the abbreviated form, or a misspelling and then you have to search through a hundred pages of results because the search only hits exact matches.

mikade
Hedgewars Developer

bender
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mikade allegedly wrote:

Could you make your search accept partial matches? It's annoying when you ask someone what map they are playing and they tell you the abbreviated form, or a misspelling and then you have to search through a hundred pages of results because the search only hits exact matches.

I have no experience with it but looks like "PostgreSQL Full Text Search" can handle it like you want. I'll try it soon and see how it works.

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